@Rea Yeah yeah, slink off back to tiktok, loser

@Rea If reading is too difficult then maybe manga isn't the right medium for you.

@Rea Using your arguments, Nii Chan needs to go. Someone could use it as a manual for how to groom a real child, much more readily than they can with Shota Oni, because it actually depicts a grooming case. Lolita is also not an instruction manual, but people took it as one anyway, often without even reading it. We should get rid of all BL and GL too, because they're literally turning the youth toxic and gay, and if everyone's gay and abusive, we all die out, right? Except it isn't. The youth were already gay, and the pedophiles were already pedophiles. Nothing 'made' them that way.

You bring yourself to art, and if 'yourself' is creepy, your interpretations of art become creepy. You can't force people to stop being creepy - you can only improve conditions in society so that fewer people feel the need to act on it in order to exercise those feelings (that they literally didn't choose be born with). And what if banning everything you think is 'child p*rn' just makes the pedo situation worse? What if it's like the Hayes code, where the repression makes people more desperate and self-hating, so they act on it more irl? All I know is that, all things being equal, I'd rather they think about fictional children.

You can shame me all you like, call me a pedo, whatever gets your hero complex all fired up at this point. Feel disgusted, you're free to, though try not to mistake your disgust for a moral position. But if you still think censorship is the right call, after everything I've said regarding LGBTQ history, you should stop reading BL. We don't want you here.

@Rea 1. Any link between the fictional media habits of these people and their attraction to children.
2. Any CAUSATIVE link between any kind of media consumption and real life actions, much less ones as awful as child exploitation.
3. That attraction to stylized, idealized fictional depictions of characters is equivalent to being attracted to those things in real life. i.e. that someone being interested in eating poo as a fantasy means they want to do so in real life, all of the time.
4. That those people are active offenders in abusing children or producing CSAM. If I am attracted to vore, I am not necessarily always eating people irl (/j).
5. That censorship of fictional media depicting child characters, such as loli/shota, will in any way reduce the number of offending pedophiles.

@Rea It doesn't matter if your intentions in calling for censorship are pure. The cause you're championing is a magnet for rich, powerful men who see your BL as just another degeneracy getting in the way of making you into an obedient wife. Everyone has a different line in the sand for where 'degeneracy' is, and what makes someone 'abnormal', and once you let the genie out of the bottle... you get gay conversion camps, basically. And it's not like those worked to cure our awful homosexxxual feelings, did they? Better get rid of those transes while we're at it, just to make society safe, right? After all, conservatives love to say that all gays are pedos, don't they? And while you're there, be careful who you brush shoulders with, given how many predators like to scream about fictional depictions, only to be caught abusing real children. If you take anything from this... please, don't worry about me. Worry about the adults also calling for censorship beside you. They can seem like the best people on earth, but you have no idea what they do in their spare time until the news breaks. Please. I used to be more anti-fiction like you are rn. These people are not your friends.

Anyway. I fundamentally disagree that we should ban all media depicting murder on your say-so. That 1-5% statistic you brought up? I can't find a source for it (did you mean 1 in 5? Source please?), but fine. We'll accept it as true, no argument, you can pack a lot of pedophiles into a government office. What that does not prove is:

@Rea So anyway, let's take Lolita for example - literally one of the most famous books about how awful pedos are, about a murderous pedo who dies in jail after writing a book where he tried to justify his pedo ways, then broke down and admitted he was a monster in the end. And people fetishized it anyway. Some people have fetishes for being transformed into a sofa and make art of it. You can't meaningfully censor things in a way that will make people stop finding things se**. All you do is harden them, drive them underground (which as I said before is dangerous when it's actual pedos) or get them to gain a fetish for the censored thing - see Japan's thing for tentacles in place of all the censored peens. You take away their pencils and they'll turn to charcoal.

Censorship is like the death penalty, in that it makes visible 'bad thing' go away and makes people feel righteous, while not actually fixing the underlying problem. So the problem you set out to fix keeps reoccurring while 'political dissidents' start disappearing. It's a band aid solution that's prone to getting hijacked by religious extremists, fascists, social conservatives, etc. Anyone whose philosophical education stopped at 'we just have to kill everyone I disagree with and the world will be perfect' will grab onto your idea in order to get rid of any art they dislike - anything that's not made by 'normal people' as you put it. It never stops at censoring one type of media, as we're seeing with itch.io and other platforms. 'Protect the children' always goes hand-in-hand with crackdowns on gay media, womens' media, their rights over their own bodies, and a general eradication of art made by marginalized communities.

@Rea Literally anything can blow up on social media though, and all you're accomplishing here is helping it gain notoriety. It's the Streisand Effect - you're attracting people to this media by making lot of noise about how awful it is. People are curious, and if something's infamous, they'll want to know why.

As for fetishizing... almost anything can be 'fetishized', or argued to be so. Nor are fetishes in themselves bad; you're a girl reading BL, stones in glass houses. Pedophilia is not a fetish - it's a paraphilia, because acting on it irl causes harm. Being gay used to be a paraphilia, because people like you back in the day said gay men (specifically men) were all pedophiles as a way of justifying prejudice. After all, who would support nasty pedophiles? AIDS is g**'s punishment! People are still doing that with transpeople NOW. It will be someone else next decade, probably the furries. Ageplay is not a paraphilia, notably, which I would argue fictional media like loli/shota is, in the same way that dark romance is fictional CNC.

@Rea Also, what support again? This is a pirate website. We're all yar har harring our way to jail together here for comic crimes against Glorious Nippon (/j). I'm not giving the author any money, because I don't agree with this in real life. These are fictional representations, like the crimes in GTA V, and somehow I don't feel any more likely to go on a shooting rampage there either. Do you like horror btw? I get the impression you'd hate it and want to ban it, because it makes you uncomfy and promotes 'bad' ideas, but maybe I've misjudged you. I'll just say there's value in feeling discomfort, and that a painting of a tiger does not mean one is in the room with you.

@Rea

Do... do your moots call people villains enough that you actually thought I was being serious? Do you genuinely not know what shoujo is? I've got nothing. I think if I ever said anything even half as embarassingly clueless as that, I would just walk into the sea and breathe in real hard (/j).

To stop joking around for a second though, I've been considering your feelings from the start. It's just that you haven't been considering mine at all, so I'm responding in kind. You extend no empathy, constantly tell me what to do/think, treat your own opinions as factual without introspecting, and don't actually respond to anything I say to you unless you think I'm glazing you. Sure, you hate shotacon, but you don't act like you care much about victims other than yourself.

As a fellow victim, I just disagree that this is an unhealthy coping mechanism. Therapists seem to generally agree that consuming art like this can be helpful. Self-harming with content you know will upset you and seeking it out from Tiktok? Not so much. My belief that harming real children is disgusting remains unshaken by the existence of Shota Oni. If it does shake that belief in you, I worry for you. That's concerning. My belief that short people should get to top more in fiction? Immaculate. Lock me up ig.

@Rea

I don't want your praise. It wouldn't mean anything. And a freak? Is that the best you can do? You laugh in text every five seconds like a shoujo villain trying not to sound fazed, if we're going to go there, and you want to talk about being pressed? Shockingly, people don't like getting accused of being pedophiles over a stupid comic. Anyone would be bothered by that.

As an aside, I was talking about general audiences (not the author!) not caring at all about the sexualization of teenagers like Yuu, and how that's messed up that they don't care, considering everyone already seems fairly aware they shouldn't be sexualizing children. THAT message gets blasted from the hilltops. I'm not defending the shotacon manga on this one, I'm saying they're both bad, but that adults sexualizing teenaged characters is still seen as 'fine'. Which I would expect you to understand?

Anyway, this is pointless, and it was dumb of me to even try talking to you. Should I have just told you to 'get help' when you were crashing out in your OP? Made a bunch of assumptions about you being off your meds? Called you hysterical, then claimed my opinions on you were fact? I mean, that's what you did.

Atp you're just baiting, and you don't actually care about any of this lmao. Have a good weekend sis.

@Rea I doubt you'll understand since you seem incapable of thinking about the bigger picture, but art isn't literally the thing it represents. It can mean different things to different people, and the reason I was asking you about Jinx's uke was because people are popping off in the comments here sexualizing Yuu, a seventeen year old minor, and nobody gives a single da**. I care, because the lack of pushback they get for it is insidious. People agree that sexualizing child characters is wrong, usually even when they're into it, but teenage characters? Nah bruh. Be as weird as you like and nobody cares, so long as it looks 'adult-ish'. Which I would think you'd know all about, but ig it's fine right?

We both want real children to be safe. Or at least, I do. I'd just rather that creepy people have fictional outlets rather than turning to CSAM. The more you suppress things, the more underground it goes, and the less control you have over the outcome - they go back to infiltrating schools and forming 'support groups'. Your approach won't stop CSAM, and it won't stop abuse. It didn't stop Epstein.

@Rea

You asked me, in a rude a** way, why anyone would consume this. So I answered you, you little weirdo. For one, I'm not a woman yet I'm talking about perspectives on this that are not for men. You know that like 40% of women have ra** fantasies, right? They clearly don't want to experience that IRL. Two several of those positions obviously contradict each other. Three, I've treated you nothing but nicely, with kid gloves despite how (frankly) rude and judgemental you've been the entire time, and here you are accusing me of being into little kids. I'm also a survivor, you utter dunce. You say I'm a predator for wanting art where I can self insert as a small person domming a huge, buff one so that I can imagine having control in a situation where I had none? The only thing on that list that applies to me, by the way, which you'd know if you'd read my comments and didn't just tlak past me the entire time about your opinions (which are apparently fact???).

Go on, tell me more about how I should be responding my own abuse. I've talked about advocacy, I've talked about real life trafficking, I just disagree with you that going after fans of a comic is going to help anybody. That's just an acceptable target for you to vent at. Problem is, you don't seem to respect others. You just want to tell them what to do and feel better than them while you do it.

@Rea  

- The boy isn't expected to take responsibility in leading the relationship or during s** by default.
- The boy ca get angry without it being percieved as a physical threat or as something that should be automatically accepted/taken seriously by the love interest.
- The boy can cry and act out without the audience throwing a fit and demanding an arc about him becoming a real man. Men in general getting to be emotional outside of anger jealousy and lu** is basically a core part of the subgenre's appeal.
- Childish characters can be bluntly honeest playdful prankish or nerdily passionate about things. A lot of people like these traits and consider them cute and wholesome but romance media tends to portray them as undesirable in a mature partner.
- For woman x boy in perticular the woman has to step up and be an equal partner to the guy in the relationship/bedroom without getting to coast by of the man having to do everything. If they are submissive to the guy in the bedroom they still have to be a responsible adult outside of it.
-Related to the above: some people like the fantasy of being taught how to have s** or being with a parter who is experienced and knows what they want which is a rarity among women in stright stories, and among bottoms in gay ones. It's much less rare in this subgenre.
- Men are often told that they shouldn't want to have someone take care of them and self inserting as a boy is a consistent way to find mommy/daddydom that is aimed at men.
- Shotadom is a full inversion of BL's typical seme/uke tropes something that is consistently hard to find. BL is already a full on daddy/boy dynamic in a lot of cases so why not lean into it at this point? If Jinx's uke is cansidered acceptableby most people's standards then is it just that they need to say they are over the age of 18? Or do they have to act mature, or is it about how they look and present themselves?

@Rea As for why people might like this kind of thing in fiction, there's a bunch of reasons but you are laser focusing on the idea of people attracted to the shota charactes in particular which is not the only demographic reading this story.

Here are some of the reasons I've heard from friends who like this kind of content:
- the child characters are not repressenting real children but a fantasy of a partner who is not a physical or social threat to the reader.
- The child characters are a disempowerment fantasy for the reader to self insert into.
- Fictional size kink tends to be limited to dominant large man x submissive small (wo)man. This leaves people with the fantasy of being (with) a big woman or small man in the lurch.
- Adult characters are free to act more 'against type' when paired with child characters like being tall but submissive or shy and anxious but powerful or tomboyish or butch women being seen as desirable by their innocent partner. These traits are considered cute and appealing instead of being seen as whiny, annoying, clingy or something that needs to be 'fixed'.

@Rea I'm sorry to hear that you have also been a victim of something this vile. I hope you have people in your life that you can talk to about this who won't shame or blame you for it. If not there are communities on reddit that can be helpful for venting if that's something you feel you need to do at some point. I know what it's like to feel isolated when you are going through stuff like this. 

If you don't find it to be a helpful or productive cpoing mechanism that's your call. I'm not going to say one way is better than another because I'm not in your head nor you mine. We aren't a monolith and acting like there is a perfect way to respond to something like this isn't hurting the pedo's who act on it, or the mysogynistic ra** culture that pushes this idea (if you are hypersexual and/or consume shota you must have wanted it), but ourselves.

This isn't an argument dw, we just happpen to disagree on some things. Your opinion on loli/shota is your own. I take no issue with that. You are free to think it's weird. I guess my question to you is where is the line in terms of what is acceptable in fiction? BL is full of ra** and default heterosexal sadomasochism by default are you okay with that?

I don't want to see the same tired overused tropes and dynamics all the time either but when you are a short dom top who likes taller and bigger guys being subby there aren't many things out there for you to read. Gay culture tends to be quite hostile to anyone who doesn't fit a specific bodytype mould when it comes to roles. Sometimes you have to spit out the seeds to find representation that works for you.

@Rea While I get having an instinctive ick respose to art with this kind of content, calling everyone who reads this a p*edophile is not the slam dunk you think it is. There are many reasons why someone would choose to engage with a manga like this one. People who have gone through CSA find media like this helpful for coming to terms with what happened to them, and not just via the more realistic, grim portrayals like Lolita or My Dark Vanessa.

Media like this does have its place as wish fulfillment for some victims. A fun power fantasy of having control in a relationship where you would realistically have very little. It's no different from someone reading a shonen manga to see the MC become powerful and get a harem of gorgeous women - it's pretty much the same fantasy of having control over your life. That's why some people like smalldom series like this. Surely you wouldn't say that someone who reads Berserk is a rapist because the plot contains ra**? People have other reasons to read things beyond being attracted to the characters.

If you care about the wellbeing of adult victims or underage people in this respect why don't you try advocating for better s** education in schools, or having better education around what is and isn't appropreate touching/behaviour from adults?