Comment by inhuman on Prinzinc

Comment on ReplyPrinzinc
@Prinzinc This argument relies on redefining slavery so broadly that the word loses all meaning. If “slavery” includes employment, debt, prison, and military service, then the term no longer describes a specific system — it just becomes a rhetorical weapon.

Historically and legally, slavery is defined by one core element: the ownership of a human being as property, with the denial of freedom enforced by coercion and violence. Not “owing money,” not “having obligations,” not “being subject to law.”

Comparing slavery to employment or voluntary service is a false equivalence. An employee can leave. A citizen can contest the law. A slave cannot — because their body and labor are owned by someone else.

Yes, forced prostitution and certain prison practices can be described as slavery-like — precisely because they involve coercion and loss of autonomy. That doesn’t make slavery morally neutral; it proves the opposite.

Saying slavery “has never been historically evil” ignores the reality that it has always depended on violence, dehumanization, and exploitation of the vulnerable. Calling specific versions bad while defending the system itself is contradictory.

Expanding definitions to avoid moral judgment isn’t intellectual clarity — it’s moral evasion.
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2 Replies

Prinzinc
Prinzinc·7 months ago
@inhuman Not at all.  When defining terms, one of the winning ways to do that is to look at original concepts from which all future concepts are born.  You would be correctly if I was simply obfuscating by expanding the definition without evidence but I can prove my definition historically.

One of the very first definitions of slavery and one which had a high degree of influence on most of the western world can actually be found in Genesis.  Egypt conquers all of Canaan through trading of grain during 7 years of famine.  The Canaanites sold their stuff, then their land and finally they sold themselves into slavery.  As a result, they were required to serve as serfs and pay a 20% tax to Egypt.  Thus, one of the most prominant original defitions by which the western world has come to understand slavery through the eons was inspired by this basic concept.  Even the Hebrew for which the entire Old Testament was written doesn't truly differentiate between "slave" and "servant".  These are more modern translation conventions that are used for English readers but they don't exist in the original language.

There is of course a large spectrum of slavery from simply being a servant of a greater person to being in chains without the ability to eat or sleep without your master's permission but even within those you have to carefully choose what is evil and what isn't.  For example, chains on a criminal are good if they prevent him from doing evil but chains on a child who did nothing wrong is evil and must be called out. 

This is why you need to be specific on what kind of slavery you are really talking about.  Just branding all slavery as bad is as ignorant as branding all slavery as good.  And to that end, let's finally define slavery for what it is... it is the ownership (partial or otherwise) of your agency, money, property, or body by someone else.
@inhuman Your argument has a lot of problems, but the biggest one is that it relies on hypotheticals such "if the owner is a good person" or "can pay your way out," which are no different from being set up for failure.Additionally, claiming that slavery has never been evil or rather, that it has never been evil historically is, at best, a very narrow and regressive way of thinking. History has demonstrated the extent of the harm that slavery has caused. In actuality, what are the benefits of slavery? It is a root of evil that benefits only the owner, which is pure evil.